The variety of healing sounds

[Knorxl]

Hi Steve,

Knorxl, there are techniques, but tricks?!?! It's not realistic to offer tips without hearing you, so how about some samples?

I'm not talking about throat singing specifically here... <whispering to make sure nobody else can hear> ... I've always wanted to sing with a deep, bass male voice! Sofar, except from going for a sex change, full hormonal treatment, and changing my name to George and scaring the daylights out of my poor mother, there's no real option...
;-)

More seriously...

Also: "High frequencies are generally considered beneficial, while low ones are more delicate to use."

By who, and is this justified?

That's the basis of, among others, the Tomatis method, which is a system developed in the 40's by a throat/nose doctor (see http://www.soundtherapyinternational.com/ for more info).
Research has shown that low frequencies negatively influence people, (this page shows interesting references, for instance: http://www.multi-science.co.uk/effects_ ... quency.htm).
Those are just examples, but if people are interested, I can look for more references (googling with keywords like 'low' 'frequency' 'sound', etc. should bring a reasonable amount of reliable information for those tempted to explore by themselves).

This answer is short, as I've got to pack and leave home soon, but will be back in a few days, though!

Knorxl

[diphoo]

Hello Lorenzo, :-)

But let's leave the technical thing apart.
Why don't you tell us some of your experiences?

Ok here is one funny and instructive story:

someone come for a pain in the middle of the back,
I localise precisely the pain with the help from my right hand.
I (overtone) sing;
after ten seconds one tells me that the pain disappeared but felt "something" moving from the pain area to the right ear.

So I decide to sing to this ear, then again "something" moved from this ear to the right arm and was separated in two parts going out of the body, one part passing through the elbow and the other part went through the little finger of the right hand.

The pain really disappeared and it was funny (for me and the patient) to chase "something" I could call a kind of "memory blocked inside the energetic system".


Bye!

Diphoo

[throatsinger]

Hi Steve,

Knorxl, there are techniques, but tricks?!?! It's not realistic to offer tips without hearing you, so how about some samples?

I'm not talking about throat singing specifically here... <whispering to make sure nobody else can hear> ... I've always wanted to sing with a deep, bass male voice! Sofar, except from going for a sex change, full hormonal treatment, and changing my name to George and scaring the daylights out of my poor mother, there's no real option...
;-)

More seriously...

Also: "High frequencies are generally considered beneficial, while low ones are more delicate to use."

By who, and is this justified?

That's the basis of, among others, the Tomatis method, which is a system developed in the 40's by a throat/nose doctor (see http://www.soundtherapyinternational.com/ for more info).
Research has shown that low frequencies negatively influence people, (this page shows interesting references, for instance: http://www.multi-science.co.uk/effects_ ... quency.htm).
Those are just examples, but if people are interested, I can look for more references (googling with keywords like 'low' 'frequency' 'sound', etc. should bring a reasonable amount of reliable information for those tempted to explore by themselves).

This answer is short, as I've got to pack and leave home soon, but will be back in a few days, though!

Knorxl

Well, we must all work with the tools we have (pun intended) ;-) And why George? Knorxl too feminine? But with karg technique you should be able to get pretty low.

Low frequencies and the Good Dr. Tomatis: This is too general a statement. Yes, constant low-frequency sounds can be detrimental, such as mechanical noise, electrical hum, ELF harms marine mammals, etc. This does not necessarily apply to sounds used in therapeutic settings. For example, lower sounds have the ability to penetrate deep into tissues, much more than higher sounds at similar intensities. This can be beneficial.

Of course, exposure to many types of high-frequency sounds is at least as unpleasant and unhealthy!

Tomatis was important and perhaps brilliant, but IMO very wrong about certain things. For example, he and his followers have been widely quoted as saying that Tibetan monks produce their famous low chordal chant by making their bones sing, thus sparing their throats (paraphrased). This is nonsense.

He taught that low vocal sounds have a discharging effect on the nervous system and that high vocal sounds have a charging effect. I don't agree. For me, and I've taught this for years with good results, open-mouth sounds can be used to discharge energy (great way to get rid of "negative" energy, feelings, etc., and closed-mouth sounds can be used to build/cultivate energy (ala the excercise discussed elsewhere). A sound such as AUM combines the two, first discharging then charging the nervous/energetic system, therefore producing a tonifying or balancing effect, in my experience.

I find it interesting that followers of Tomatis claim that it is thoroughly scientific and that the positive results of the Tomatis Method® are supported by extensive unbiased scientific research. In my own searching online, I was unable to find such evidence. Lots of anecdotes, but nearly every single positive report/study validating its effectiveness was done or provided by individuals or institutions associated with and profiting from this lengthy and very expensive process. Hmmm...

If anyone has contrary research results, I'd be very interested to hear it.

Diphoo, interesting story. Do you have any theories about the mechanism/process involved?

[diphoo]

Hello Steve, :-)

Diphoo, interesting story. Do you have any theories about the mechanism/process involved?

I have some ideas about how that kind of "mechanism" behaves:

1)Any pain (physical or psychical) leaves a "memory" inside the energetic body.
This "memory" needs energy to stay "active or alive" and becomes an "energetic parasite" (people are tired).

2)The energetic body is very reactive to human voice, especially overtone singing.
Nature is well made since overtone singing frequencies correspond to energetic body frequencies.

3)The harmonic scale with its natural intervals reminds the energetic body its natural vibration.
The "memory" cannot support harmonic vibrations.

4)The energetic body is made of thousand energetic veins.
"Memories" generally follow the energetic path of the veins when chased by the singing.

My conclusion is very simple:

"Parasite memories" and sometimes "entities" can't stand overtone singing because of its harmonic structure.


In some cases it is hard to get rid of very old "parasite memories":
once, I kept on singing the right interval for about 10 mn to take off the sticky parasite of the patient.

Ok! Don't be afraid of that kind of stuff it's only a job that I love.

Bye!

Diphoo

[Knorxl]

Well, we must all work with the tools we have (pun intended) ;-) And why George? Knorxl too feminine? But with karg technique you should be able to get pretty low.

:-D
Because of Canadian bass-barytone George London, probably - but you could easily coax me into falling for Paul (Robeson).
Actually, I'm visiting friends in London, and my host spontaneously produces the most interesting 'pre-kargyraa' growls when he pretends to be a wolf to scare people. I'm jealous!

Sorry for not being too serious, I don't have time to reply in depth today... but will on monday at the latest.

Good weekend to everybody!

Knorxl - swapping the Doc Marten's for stilettos

[melodioso]

Sorry Knorxl,
for a while I understood that Knorxl was a lady name.
Well I think that with serious singing training you can:
1. improve your extension (reaching higher and lower pitch than before)
2. modify your singing and speaking timbre (eg having a deeper voice when you wish)
I think you can get noticeable results in a few months if you train seriously even just half an hour every day.
It worked for me. Then singing in karg style can give even more noticeable depths as Steve pointed out. I think Korekteer is also a good way to get this.

Steve,
Curiously I am just reading Dr Tomatis "The ear and the voice", maybe the most singing oriented of his writings. I'm right about to start the chapters about the "boney" voice. I may be back on this.
I'm very interested in your techniques (open/closed mouth), can you tell some more? Because I came to similar conclusions. In my opinion the exit of sound from the nose will make the skull vibrate more. This can be pleasant or unpleasant.
The biggest skull vibration anyway is when I buzz my lips for this purpose and sing along with it. This is very pleasant; all your face will be involved. And my lips buzz is low. That's for the record.

Diphoo,
It's difficult for me to follow you when you say that you "localise precisely the pain with the help from my right hand". Sorry, but can you explain this?
Then you say you can move the pain and make it disappear, which is easier for me to understand. Do you think you can also induce pain, I mean make it appear. No misunderstanding, I mean to do that by mistake.

Thank you
Lorenzo

[diphoo]

Hello Lorenzo, :-)

Diphoo,
It's difficult for me to follow you when you say that you "localise precisely the pain with the help from my right hand". Sorry, but can you explain this?

Since I cannot see "energy" I use my hands to feel it and to localise it precisely.
Then I sing toward the pain's area.

Then you say you can move the pain and make it disappear, which is easier for me to understand. Do you think you can also induce pain, I mean make it appear. No misunderstanding, I mean to do that by mistake.

I cannot create pain with overtone singing.

But sometimes "sleeping memories" or "energetics parasites" can be revealed by my singing and make people remembering about old pains not completely gone.
So I make my job and these old pains don't come back again.

Bye!

Diphoo

[melodioso]

Thanks Diphoo,
What do you mean by feeling with your hand?
Do you feel vibration, or heat, etc?
How did you realise about this capacity of yours? When?
Sorry for the many, naïve questions!
Cheers
Lorenzo

[diphoo]

Hello Lorenzo, :-)

Thanks Diphoo,
What do you mean by feeling with your hand?
Do you feel vibration, or heat, etc?

I feel a kind of light fresh or warm breeze depending on the problem.
Fresh when there is hole in the energy system making a leak.
Warm when there is a knot, a block of energy.

How did you realise about this capacity of yours? When?

I was interested in hand healing a long time ago, I tried to feel it and to use it and it worked.
Every body can do this.You just have to try, don't need to believe in it since it is real.
People can feel your hand without touching them.

Bye!

Diphoo

[melodioso]

Thanks Diphoo,

One day I'll experiment this or visit a healer.
It is very interesting.
Lorenzo

[Knorxl]

(post edited as my cursor froze in mid-action, messing up my response and keeping only the quoted text)

Hi Lorenzo,

Sorry Knorxl,
for a while I understood that Knorxl was a lady name.

Well, in fact Knorxl is a genderless name, but I tend to be female... :-)

I'm having a hard time using my throat muscles freely since my car accidents, and the lower the sound, the more difficult for me it is to produce. I guess the only thing to do is keep practicing and make sure I"m as relaxed as possible when doing so.

Knorxl

[Knorxl]

Hi Steve,

Knorxl, there are techniques, but tricks?!?! It's not realistic to offer tips without hearing you, so how about some samples?

Being a total klutz when it comes to recording devices and most of the so-called modern technologies, can you tell me what's the best/easiest way to do this (equipement, file format, etc.)?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Knorxl

[throatsinger]

Here's my suggestion: Post what gear you have now, such as mics, computer, software, etc., and someone with a similar setup can then advise you.

[Knorxl]

Here's my suggestion: Post what gear you have now, such as mics, computer, software, etc., and someone with a similar setup can then advise you.

I use a Mac G4 and until now have never checked any possibility to record sounds or voices with it or any other device. Something tells me I need some specific software and an external mike, but that's where my competence stops...

Later tonight I'll ask my friend what he has, if anything, just in case he's a bit more evolved than me in that area.

I'm having a lot of fun trying to apply your 'bubble' technique... The first noticeable result is that it makes my cat instantly appear from wherever she is and she becomes most affectionate (if chewing my hair is considered affectionate...). Maybe I should upload a video file instead of an audio one...

;-)

Knorxl

[melodioso]

Hello Knorxl,
so you're looking for a bass voice. It depends on the length of the vocal folds which in women are shorter. This is for the low frequency you want.
There are tricks, like strohbass. I'm studying it in the last months, but I'm unsure if it can damage the voice. It's like the screaming techniques: somebody will not be affected like all these growlers around. Some will damage their voice. So I don't know if I should suggest. Sometimes I'm afraid for me too. The idea is to make parts of your throat resonate at a fraction of the vocal folds frequency. But my doctor said that maybe you find they resonate that way when you don't want to. My granmother has a male voice eversince and I think she has this phenomenon.

Maybe Kargyraa (partially works on the same principle) is a better choice because we have official advisors here.

Then it comes to the resonance. This is for the deep timbre you want. I think this is harmless instead. Tuning larynx-to-lips system is the key. I'm sure that in a few experiments you can understand what I mean. Larynx should be kept down because it will extend your resonance chamber in the throat. More sound and lower formant levels to tune your timbre.
The best exercise I found is to open wide your mouth and try to pronounce the vowels without closing your mouth. Like A-E-I-O-U (Italian pronounciation, U is like french OU). You need to use your throat to shape the vowels; and the larynx will necessarily go down. Maybe this is explained too quick, but it works in a few days.
As I said, training is the key; don't expect to get two octaves down, but you can get very good results with patience.

To the gurus here, if I say nonsense, please advise. I'm sharing what I understood, I'm not a teacher; but these worked for me in the last many years.

Cheers
Lorenzo