Alzin introduces himself and his singing

[Alzin]

I don't know where to start when practicing Xorekteer. I don't even know where exactly my vocal folds are. It seems like my whole throat is vibrating, even in normal speaking. I think my normal voice souds kind of muddy, but I don't know what to do about that.
I've tried several things, but nothing seems to work. I'm an imatient person, I know that, but when after weeks of practicing no results can be heard, I'm getting really frustrated. When practicing Xorekteer, I constrict my throat randomly to get the sound I hear on real singers' recordings, but the constriction is just everywhere, I get a headache, so I'm doing it wrong. When I'm trying to losen the constriction here or there, I always lose the complete sound and get nothing but a whisper. Maybe my throat is grown in a wrong way...
I just can't get anything that sounds and feels like a start or could lead me anywhere...




But I'm still trying. So there must be some hope left...

[Synapse309]

I'll try to help you figure it out. I probably had similar holdbacks as you...

PM me...

[throatsinger]

Alzin, I recommend that you carefully review my Lesson 1. Xorekteer is covered in quite a lot of detail, including using your fingers to find where your vocal folds are. Also, we could do a Skype lesson if you'd like.

[Alzin]

Thank you for your kind words. I'm feeling better now. Sometimes I just get this "World coming down"-feeling. (I hope that's the expression)
I think it's just practise. I'll review lesson one again when I have some time. Of course I don't expect to sound any good at once, or after a half or even a full year. I know this is hard. It was just me seeing no progress at all, but don't worry. I will find my way...
Of course I'd like to do a skype-lesson, but I don't have the 50$ and I don't have paypal and you would just hear me sounding like getting strangled.
No, I'll practise (I can practise all day at my job right now) and post my samples here so you can tell me if it sounds right.
And here we go: my latest attempt five minutes ago. Is it a good basis to work on?

[throatsinger]

Hey Alzin,

That's really ok! Just keep going in that direction. Be patient and have high expectations

[Alzin]

Hey Alzin,

That's really ok! Just keep going in that direction. Be patient and have high expectations

Cool.
Today, I found an intersting way to get into a less (maybe not enough) constricted Xorekteer. I was doing some quiet Kargyraa and it was a bit unstable, so I lost constriction of the ventricolar folds. And there was a sound from my throat that was more overtone than fundamental. I could even do some Sygyt-sounding Sygyt. That was interesting, I'm experimenting with that now, too. It's a bit hard to get since the first time was an accident, but now I'm starting to learn to control my throat. At one end, I'm adding constriction, on the other I'm losening it... in the end, things will fall into place. When I have some time, I'll record another sample. I'm always rushed the last few days...

[Synapse309]

There you go, that's what I was talking about. At some point something just "clicks" and your muscles will eventually remember how to repeat it, just like with Kargyraa.

I am currently working on my Sygyt. It's going marvellously.

By the way: the English word "eventually" is NOT the same as the German "eventuell", which means "perhaps" or "maybe". It means "in the end" or "finally" as in "after some time, he eventually understood"...

[Alzin]

There you go, that's what I was talking about. At some point something just "clicks" and your muscles will eventually remember how to repeat it, just like with Kargyraa.

I am currently working on my Sygyt. It's going marvellously.

By the way: the English word "eventually" is NOT the same as the German "eventuell", which means "perhaps" or "maybe". It means "in the end" or "finally" as in "after some time, he eventually understood"...

Thanks for word explanation. Very useful.
It hasn't made "Click" yet, I can't quite reproduce this. I can go into a voice that is a good base for Khoomei and Sygyt (of course, very, very beginner), and I guess it's a beginning Xorekteer-voice, but I can't get this overtone-thing I once had. I had some of these "voice-accidents" that are pretty cool and never come back. They're weird... A month ago, I did Kargyraa, and suddenly I felt a ring of constriction where Kargyraa happened, and below a ring of constriction where I suppose was Xorekteer. That never came back... But I know it is there, so I will find it. You can run, but you can't hide!

[Synapse309]

Sorry, I was NOT referring to your throat making a clicking sound. I meant that metaphorically. It refers to you suddenly just getting it, understanding it.

[Alzin]

:oops: Sorry, I was NOT referring to your throat making a clicking sound. I meant that metaphorically. It refers to you suddenly just getting it, understanding it.

I know. Not that bad in english after all. Same expression in german.
Clicking sounds like in some languages in Africa would be interesting to mix with throat-singing... ethnic beat box?

[Synapse309]

Yeah, I dig it...

Like the tongue-clicking in Snoop's "Drop it like it's hot", right?

I have beatboxed very little in my rap days. I just never spent a lot of time training myself to do the rhythmic stuff.
Just last night I had a little practice session and was actually just trying to do some scales with a few different fundamentals, but then I added some "hiss" to the drone. Not very sharp, just a little extra air passing above my tongue about mid-palate. Doesn't seem to change the drone or the harmonics much, but it changes the overall sound, makes it whispery. So I played with that for a few minutes and found that it uses very little extra air compared to just a drone, plus I can turn it on and off, like Ezengileer, adding a slight rhythmic element.
I suppose that consonants could be used with Khoomei to add "percussion" similar to the way Bobby McFerrin does. Actual beatboxing probably wouldn't work well, because it uses the tongue and the glottis to make the clicks and pops and seals the lips off to make "p" and "b" sounds, but I might be wrong.

I saw one beatboxer that simulated a bass line with a Kargyraa-like sound, and uses glissandos and falsetto to add "lazer" and "siren" noises in his stuff. The rest are "K", "T", "P" and "D" sounds. This dude chained the sounds in such a complex way that it really sounded like two people. Simply stunning. I searched for the link, but I can't find it now.

[Alzin]

Yeah, I dig it...

Like the tongue-clicking in Snoop's "Drop it like it's hot", right?

I have beatboxed very little in my rap days. I just never spent a lot of time training myself to do the rhythmic stuff.
Just last night I had a little practice session and was actually just trying to do some scales with a few different fundamentals, but then I added some "hiss" to the drone. Not very sharp, just a little extra air passing above my tongue about mid-palate. Doesn't seem to change the drone or the harmonics much, but it changes the overall sound, makes it whispery. So I played with that for a few minutes and found that it uses very little extra air compared to just a drone, plus I can turn it on and off, like Ezengileer, adding a slight rhythmic element.
I suppose that consonants could be used with Khoomei to add "percussion" similar to the way Bobby McFerrin does. Actual beatboxing probably wouldn't work well, because it uses the tongue and the glottis to make the clicks and pops and seals the lips off to make "p" and "b" sounds, but I might be wrong.

I saw one beatboxer that simulated a bass line with a Kargyraa-like sound, and uses glissandos and falsetto to add "lazer" and "siren" noises in his stuff. The rest are "K", "T", "P" and "D" sounds. This dude chained the sounds in such a complex way that it really sounded like two people. Simply stunning. I searched for the link, but I can't find it now.

I never liked rap... there is really few rap music I can stand, Rage Against The Machine for example.
I just started a little Beatboxing, just playing around, nothing serious, but it's fun to do a little ptbtbtptb.
What is Ezengileer? I'm still learning the names...
I hope you can post a sample of hissed drone.
Maybe combining the p and b with Dumchuktaar would work. I think many Beatboxers use a technic similar to Kargyraa. One even stated that Kargyraa was Bassline.

[throatsinger]

Here's some percussive khoomei, Sklar-style: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EczPVIKIsU

Ezengileer uses opening and closing of the nasal port for a harmonic/rhythmic effect. It's in there, too.

[Alzin]

I wonder if I will ever remember all those names...
And what do you call the mix of Kargyraa and Sygyt? I tried to do that. Sample attached. Well, it's not a beginner technic, and I'm less than a beginner, but nevertheless, I tried.
Plus I'm sick right now, but well... I like playing around. But I like the Kargyraa in the end.

[Synapse309]

That's called Chylandyk and I've found it a tough nut to crack. I do it sometimes, but in no traditional way at all, mostly for effects.

To do Chylandyk or Sygyt Kargyraa* well sounds wonderful, but it's one of those techniques that are easy to do, but difficult to do well

Here's Rowan doing it particularly well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To95iKB2N9I